Thursday, 17 May 2012

Why Arsenal fans know better than Wenger

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by JAMES CURITS Sitting down last night at the Bengal Lancer over a Chicken Pathia and a few cold Cobras, I had plenty to talk about with my cousin. We hadn’t seen each other for about 17 years but I always knew he was a hearty Gooner. “You might as well blow yourselves out now with Arsenal,” said my West Ham supporting dad, and so we did. We agreed on all the fundamentals: that Almunia is shit, the trophy famine is down to a lack of hungry players, spending to improve the spine of the team is necessary, and that my brother had been a pussy ordering the Korma. 

So why in our separate worlds had my cousin and I known that Arsenal’s goalkeeping assortment was about as good as the general election options? If my stomach could have managed a side dish we might have covered Arsenal’s history since we last saw each other, but it couldn’t so instead we went over the problems between the posts and the last five years. 

The ground we stepped upon wasn’t really anything new because it had already been trodden down by other Arsenal fans with the same ideas across the country, probably speaking like us, digging into Buna’s, Balti’s and (for the brave among us) Phall’s. Why then can the average Joe see things more clearly than Wenger? How could one man seem to get it so wrong when the millions of outsiders looking in had known the roots to Arsenal’s troubles all season? 

It was exactly that, that one word: outsiders! People on the periphery often have a clearer perception of things, whatever it might be. I remember my first year in halls at University when one girl had her man troubles at home and needed advice. I thought it strange at the time why she would come to me and not her friends, but I guess having the opinion of someone with an impartial view on things would deliver more sense. Perhaps it is the same at Arsenal. 

Could Wenger’s judgement be clouded by the good nature and noble standing of his players? They all seem nice enough; Eboue with his charm and end of match shirt donations to the crowd, Walcott’s Eton speaking skills or even Diaby’s docile temper. But can this detract Wenger from seeing what is most important, giving the fans a return for their money with results and trophies? To Wenger, this is undoubtedly imperative, yet I’m sure taking care of his colleague’s careers is equally so, and a big reason for his serene tolerance of them. 

The average football fan isn’t as forgiving and probably doesn’t have the patience of somebody like Wenger. After his howler against Wigan, Wenger was quick to defend Lukas Fabianski, explaining we will see his talent come through and on that day he will be right. There is nothing wrong with standing by a young keeper and there have been plenty of times I’ve sided with mates who were definitely in the wrong, but that’s just the way it is. 

Still, this doesn’t side-step the fact that the fan holds a valuable position in a football club’s make-up. Of course, the football fan doesn’t interact with the players on a day-to-day basis, instead only sees the weekend game which is the thing the intensive mid-week build-up has been all about. At the end of the day, the 38 games of a Premier League campaign is where a club’s season is judged, far from the niceties that goes with running a club from Monday to Friday.  

I’m not saying that the manager should have no contact with the players and chose his team by sitting in the stands once a week and taking notes from there. This is what Gravesend and Northfleet tried, by allowing the fans to choose the team. Somehow I don’t believe a Conference club could have 30,000 fans and this footballing model scares me, to think some businessman in Japan is playing a little fantasy football with my club for a few poxy shares. 

Having said that, the voice of the fans should be taken more seriously as their viewpoint is precious in being straightforward and uninfluenced. If Wenger needs some advice then a quick Q and A after the Fulham game wouldn’t hurt. My advice would be to spend the larger chunk of this summers transfer budget on a ‘keeper already considered top-class. That, and not to eat such a spicy dish on a work day, so unfortunately Insiders, I will have to end things there. Only pray there is toilet paper!

{jcomments on}

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  • DC

    Stupid, stupid article. Do you honestly think that AW doesn’t know the weaknesses in the team? If you listened to fans then most of the team would have been sold and we would be in the Championship.

    Grow up.

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  • yido

    hahahaha
    let me guess your gooner do it next year!
    beating you and taking your title hope was the light of my year

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  • brdgunner

    And let me guess you will finish above us next year.

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  • Jimmy

    Fools, of course the fans don’t know any better than Wenger. Your idiocy helped you to completely miss the point. The title was sensationalised although and the real discussion was why fans in bulk are right on quite a few occassions.

    Yes Wenger got Song right when others said he would never be good enough (a good example) As always though people are quick to be petit rather than find something to agree on. On a boring Thursday I tried to bring you something to discuss. You shitty little reply tells me everything about your arguing skills.

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  • joe

    The fans are listened to. But they know nothing of — and do not factor into their thoughts — anything outside what they see in the match. Not even stats — you English are the most anti-stats people in the world. In that regard, you are no different than the pundits who you take to task every time they criticize Arsenal, even when you hold the same view.

    You don’t know the following…

    Talent assessment
    Player development
    Training regimes
    Tactics and strategy
    the market for players outside
    how to negotiate
    what the club’s goals are
    what the budget is
    what the assessment of each player’s future is
    How players on the squad compare — classic is how you all slag off Project Youth, then whine that the youngsters — who have less experience than the people you hate — shouldn’t be given more playing time.

    In fact, on game day, you don’t even know what condition any particular player is in, whether he is playing hurt or not.

    Your views are heard, read, and considered. It takes great moral and intellectual strength not to be influenced by such vocal and irrational (as you can only be, given just how “outside” you really are) forces. But this is not politics, it is a business, and it is not owned by the fans in any way shape or form. And Arsene is no different than any other manager on earth — he has to be consistent (ever had an inconsistent boss?), have a plan, have reasons for it which he has approved with executive leadership of the club, and confidence that he can do the job correctly more often than not.

    Anytime I see fans without joy in their consideration — the opposite of Its Up For Grabs Now guys — I know they have gone down a sinkhole from which it is very hard to escape. Good luck.

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  • looneygooner

    not as good as winning the league twice at your shit-hole of a ground

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  • Not over the hill

    Perhaps what is wrong with Arsenal is too much pasta and not enough roast beef! A course of SAS training on NATO rations would do wonders for some of them, instead of being cosseted. perhaps corseted for some of them!
    But I digress, if Arsenal fans are ONLY interested in trophies, then to my mind they are not soccer fans. Supporting a club is the icing on the cake, nothing more. Think Newcastle, real fans not ego-seeking cretins. Would Arsenal be watched by so many, if on another planet, Arsenal were in the Championship?
    Real soccer fans follow the likes of Fort William F C who might win one game in a season, losing the reat by 10 or more goals!!

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  • brdgunner

    Newcastle real fans?? Its becuase of the short sighted I want it all know view taken by thier fans that they got relegated in the first place.

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  • Mike A

    You may like football, but you clearly do not understand it.

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  • idiachi

    Arsenal need to overhaul the medical team as well. I feel strongly that the physiotherapist may not be very competent. How come players from other top clubs get back faster from injuries while our players are forever on the table?

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  • Berg10

    joe – you said…

    “it is a business, and it is not owned by the fans in any way shape or form.”

    but without the fans a very large chunk of revenue would be dearly missed, we need each other (AFC & we the fans), as with all “business’s” AFC need to listen to their “customers” in order to make the sale or in simple terms relieve us of our hard earned cash, i’e’ ticket sales, matchday refreshments, merchandise etc.

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  • harper

    “Do you honestly think that AW doesn’t know the weaknesses in the team? “

    Yes, I do. How long have we’ve expressed doubts about Almunia? How long have we said this team doesn’t know how to defend properly? How long have we said these young players should be learning alongside older, experienced heads who’ve won trophies to guide them?

    All those things have proven accurate. And yet how long has it taken AW to face these basic facts?

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  • Jimmy

    joe, your repsonse is the kind we welcome.

    some people dont realise that this is a blog. i write in my 40 minute lunch break for free so im hard pushed to bring facts, so try to bring ideas to light. if i was writing for the telegraph then id bring you more content, or try.

    you are right though, stats do often get missed out and they do tell us about plenty of things. we all know wenger is a keen statician, sadly the ones who get paid to comment on tv do little in the way of research. lawro always looks like he just got out of bed.

    berg 10 is right also. and you also say that there are lots of things the fans dont know. we cant know everything but dont you think the fans who keep the club alive should be given all the vital info? i feel we dont always get it!

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  • Jimmy

    real soccer fans follow who they love, and it doesnt always have to be the team next door, whether you live on the steps of ashburton grove or in china you can still be as big a fan as the next man. maybe those with season tickets sit higher though.

    i still think winning trophies is the main reason you follow a team. we all want success dont we? even the smaller teams living in hope of winning the fa cup, and i guess the teams even smaller than them just hope for some slice of success, that might include a decent cup run and no more, or the last playoff place in their league.

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  • Jimmy

    is that aimed at me? and what do you understand of football mike a? from your post, it seems very little … :zzz

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  • Jimmy

    i love how it was spurs that ruined our season. i think we did that ourselves by losing and drawing to often. or maybe that is another thing spurs consider “winning”, by beating their superiors arsenal once in 11 years. i bloody love spurs fans! cheers yido :-)

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  • Jimmy

    cheers harper, in my hurried scribblings im still happy you saw one of the points of my argument. the question: how do fans seems to predict the future so well? short term future granted …

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  • Hash

    Agree with idiachi, Arsenal should get better physios. Wenger said Djourou should come back in March. It’s late April now now. Where was him? I also heard too many times setback in Arsenal injury list. What the f*** the physios did?

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  • Michael Bates

    And which of the sixty thousand in the ground, and God knows how many outside it, should he listen to?
    You perhaps…? Because you have this mechanism for a quick rant. Maybe he should ask the guy wearing red and white and puking his guts up outside your curry house… he’s bound to know?
    Wenger has a track record second to no other Arsenal manager I’ve seen in fifty years of supporting them. Not only that but win, lose, or draw he packs them in, because he also knows how to entertain.
    Opinions are great; yours is just as valid as mine, but neither of has the knowledge or all-round awareness of so many other influencing factors to give Wenger advice.

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  • Jimmy

    you just had to take my title as gospel didn’t you? fuck, what is wrong with you? i was really question why the fans can see areas that need strengthening but wenger doesnt?

    where did i say i could do a bettr job? you’re thick to think anybody would honestly believe that, so why bother saying it?

    yes wenger is the best manager this club has ever had. not outside the top four in all his years.

    “Opinions are great; yours is just as valid as mine, but neither of has the knowledge or all-round awareness of so many other influencing factors to give Wenger advice.” THANKS FOR STATING THE OBVIOUS!

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  • Danno

    being a die-hard gooner in the us i somewhat exemplify your first point, but i disagree with your second. i think there are many reasons for initially becoming a fan. family alegiance, proximity to the stadium, peer pressure, nationalism, and entertainment value all figure into the equation. once you are a fan of a team, you remain true to that team, regardless of their position in the table. you ride the emotional roller coaster of wins and losses, and they become a part of your psyche. you certainly hope, wish, and pray that they win everything possible, but that is not why you remain a fan.
    that’s why it’s easy to understand these pathetic spurs fans who are seeing this one win as their end-all. sports is supposed to be cyclical, and we’ve been beating them like rented mules for a decade plus. in their eyes the cycle is not reaching its natural end. if roles were reversed we’d all be doing the same thing. luckily they are not.

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  • Michael Bates

    Apparently my opinion is NOT as valid as yours.
    If you don’t like criticism don’t write blogs. failing that; don’t write infantile headlines to get hits.

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  • harper

    “how do fans seems to predict the future so well?”

    obviously we’re not right all the time — we’ve been proven very wrong about Song, for example. Just like we were proven wrong about Gilberto.

    But that’s different from what we can see how the team are playing. Judgments about individual players are always debatable but there are certain, basic, obvious, issues relating to how the team performs that are CLEAR to everyone. All you have to do is WATCH THE DAMNED TEAM PLAY week in and week out.

    It’s not as if we’re geniuses, we don’t have to be. It’s basic stuff. Defensive discipline and awareness. Average to poor goalkeepers. The need for young players to learn alongside old heads.

    Arsene’s just too damned close to the project to judge these things objectively.

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  • Jimmy

    i’ll write any fucking headline i want. you like hiting on the obvious dont you mike.

    yes im gonna inflate headlines to get hits, the whole point of the website, to draw people into discussion which is usually very good on here.

    but fear not mike, i’ll make sure my next headline is something like: “dont bother clicking on this blog, my writing doesnt live up to the title and anyway, you’ll come across some massive dicks.”

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  • D

    when i saw the title on newsnow, i thought it was sarcastic. i should have known better. well at least newsnow has the ‘hide publication’ option now

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  • Jimmy

    haha danno i agree. i lived in the states for a while and im now a harden carolina panthers/ gamecock fan. or was that peer group pressure?

    i support my local team dagenham and redbridge (league two) because they are, well, local.

    i support arsenal because that’s who my grandad supported and who i grew up watching football with.

    i support the pheonix suns because i find steve nash entertaining.

    i hope i have given enough examples to help support your point. good reply!

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  • Jimmy

    harper, listening to you is like smoking a good joint. calms me right down and gives me hope. rational hope at that. good work!

    disclaimer: arsenalinsider does not actually use, or in anyway condone illegal substances.

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  • Jimmy

    you’ll be sorely missed D :zzz

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  • harper

    “harper, listening to you is like smoking a good joint.” — ok, you just gave me a laugh that will last me the whole weekend!! Have to remember that one, tell my friends, co-workers, total strangers on the subway….! :lol:

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  • Peter Eriksson

    Best colleges,
    Give Fabianski full conf and he will grow to be a great gk. Next season is Gunners. I think we gonna have a great season. One more good middef and we are up for grabs.
    Go Gunners, 2010/2011 our year!
    Peter from Sweden,
    (Gooner since 8th birthday)

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  • LeBoss

    Fucking classic jimbo – Keep up the good work :lol:

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  • crocks@arsenal.com

    he said fabianski is top class
    proof that he has lost it

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  • TimT

    this article is a joke. Typical shite from someone who knows nothing about managing a club. You are a disgrace to your profession and give good journalists a bad name.

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  • Jimmy

    This “blog” isn’t my profession Tim, get real, writing blogs doesn’t require a PHD. And I’m not a journo. Looks like you’re the one talking shite.

    But I do happen to manage a club: Vernon FC of the Essex Combinations Sunday League. We got to the semi-final of the cup smoking at half-time and going on the lash Saturday nights. I’m up for manager of the year.

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  • sad

    I think if the author did know better than wenger he would already be a high profiled manager or coach in the lower divisions…
    Really if anyone outside of the “footballing system” ever knew more than wenger, muhrino, benitez, ancelotti or manchini they would not sit and post at arsenal insider forums. they would be out there earning good money from their knowledge..

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  • Jimmy

    Christ, some people really need to loosen up. Anyway, I hope I’ve helped pull in the ratings tonight boss.

    If anyone wants to comment on the unique position of the football fan, I’ll happily find time to reply, but only after I’ve filled the team water bottles up with beer for the game this weekend.

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  • Kenny

    one of the most poorly written articles I’ve had the displeasure of reading – very boring too! Don’t give up the day job. My dog has more constructive things to say, than this pathetic excuse. Go support Spurs, you’re a disgrace.

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  • ryan

    i think the way things have worked out with almunia with the fans knowing best is a pretty funny coincidence actually. the past few seasons almunia has been very good and he was very unfairly criticised for making few mroe mistakes than any other top keeper in this country did.

    the fact is people are persuasive and jump on band wagons very easily. people believe what they are told by those around them and people were pretty blind in their disliking of almunia in recent years. rather than seeing that he was very rarely responsible for the goals conceded in the past (similarly as often as other good keepers) instead if he made one mistake like vs utd in the cl it was more important than 3 months of good form before it because his face didn’t fit and the band wagon was never on his side.

    because of this it’s pretty ironic that it’s become a self-fulfilling prophecy whereby this year he has been very bad. i worry with him in goal now for the first time and i think we need to replace him. but that has only been the case this season. rather than stepping back last season and saying after each goal we conceded was that REALLY his fault? (and 95% of the time concluding no) instead it was just knee-jerk disliking for the guy pretty much regardless of how he played. if he played well for a few months it was just a one off spell of good form and if for once he made a mistake people would say ‘see i told you he’s no good!’

    now the guy’s who’s face doesn’t fit is finally playing really badly and people are for the first time actually justified in claiming he doesn’t look good enough at the moment. i mean this is the same consensus that said alex song is awful and which totally changed it’s tune and now will only say positive things even when he has a bad game once in a while.

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  • TJ14

    Why did you read the whole thing numb nuts?? Surely you could have got your dog to read it and then give you some soundbytes. That is before you roast him. Mug.

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  • TJ14

    The word ‘Dick’ means:

    A male organ
    A shortened version of the name Richard
    Half the name of a classic english dessert, the other half being Spotted

    The last and most appropriate meaning, is that of ‘TimT’

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  • Jimmy

    yea ryan you make a strong point about fans jumping on bangwagons. wenger is one mind, and sometimes it seems the fans as a whole can be one brain too. then we get more rational people like yourself.

    id say almunia was fairly good for that run but i was sensing for most of last year that he wasnt really good enough for a long term fixed position in the team. for me last season it was never about his errors, more that he never seemed to have that day where you can say our keeper was man of the match.

    this season was extremely annoying. arsenal were leading the charts for conceeding from the first shot on target. it seemed almunia could never make the save. i think he has been surpassed now by rob green :-)

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  • Jimmy

    If harper is arsenalinsider’s doobie, then TJ must be the websites line of cocaine. sock it to man scarface! Kenny’s a mug lol.

    The sad thing is, that despite my slightly deviant headline, I thought there was an interesting discussion in my piece somewhere about the position of a football fan and why (s)he can be so right (sometimes) when the manager doesn’t see it.

    Some psychologists were asking me to write a book. I had to turn the offer down as I will be shouting abuse at Adebayshitface from Saturday until the end of his City career! You can really get behind the team tomorrow lads by giving him a right mouthful … I know TJ will be!

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  • TJ14

    ryan, I agree with the Almunia situation. I have thought he has played better over the last few seasons (less so this one).

    The issue I have and have now come to realise, is that a GK is not just about the shots he saves.

    I think it is becoming more about how much confidence he gives to the people in front of him. You would maybe not fault him for some of the goals that we concede from corners. But if he puts doubt in the minds of the defenders as they are unsure if he will come, or stay on his line, then this is a huge contributory factor in us conceding.

    We have good shot stoppers at the club, but we need organisers who can stop shots. Very rarely will you see Almunia or Fabianski organising his defence. This is what we are missing in my opinion.

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  • Xrysto

    don’t hold your breath fellas, by the way wenger fantasizes about fabianski in the press, he MUST be a pole-smoker! it’s disgusting. seriously, get a room.

    watching fabianski in goal is like watching elmer fudd hunt that waskally wabbit.

    and i gaurantee wenger plans on not only picking him for the rest of the season, but potentially backing him for next season as well. BUT RIGHT NOW IS WHERE WE MUST DRAW THE LINE…

    we the fans have the perfect opportunity to let both of them know exactly how we feel: WE WILL NOT BACK THIS KEEPER.

    boo his sorry ass right off the field on saturday. do not let up until wenger wakes the fuck up.

    we prefer mannone or even bendter in goal than HIM. better to sacrifice one of the seasons remaining games than all of next years league and cup hopes on ‘which-way-to-da-goal’ fabianski!

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  • harper

    Excellent post, TJ. Spot-on. I can honestly see why AW thought Almunia’s a good keeper for us. Let’s remember his stats last season showed him to be the league’s 4th best keeper, not a bad ranking at all.

    I also think that choosing the right keeper is a manager’s hardest scouting/recruitment job. I think keepers are just a really difficult position in every possible way. Even the best managers make mistakes in judgment. And FINDING a top class keeper who’s available and affordable is extremely difficult. All the big clubs are after Lloris right now – to compete Arsene will have to fork over a huge amount of cash, assuming Lyon are willing to sell him at all.

    Anyway, as you say – a top class keeper has to establish an excellent understanding with his defense, and he has earn their trust and respect. Almunia, for all the good shot-stopping he does, just hasn’t done that.

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